Just Stop: How to Move from Survival Mode to Surrender with Debbie Simmons

In this episode, Keynote Speaker, Author, and Leadership Strategist, Debbie Simmons joins Jill O'Boyle for an honest conversation about burnout, surrender, trust, and learning how to stop living in survival mode.

After walking through infertility, the heartbreaking loss of her quadruplet sons, adoption, leadership challenges, and building a thriving ministry, Debbie shares the life-changing lessons God taught her about releasing control, embracing obedience, and finding peace in the middle of pressure. 

If you’re a high-achieving woman constantly hustling, carrying the weight of expectations, feeling overwhelmed, emotionally exhausted, or stuck in “go mode,” this episode will help you pause, breathe, and reconnect with what truly matters.

Together, Jill and Debbie unpack:

•  How to move from survival mode into surrender 
•  Why high achievers often default to control and hustle 
•  The connection between identity, burnout, and trust 
•  Practical ways to quiet the noise and hear God’s voice 
•  What it means to leave a legacy instead of just chasing success

This conversation is filled with wisdom, faith, emotional healing, resilience, leadership insight, and practical encouragement for women navigating stress, burnout, grief, anxiety, purpose, and personal growth. 

Learn more and Connect with Debbie Simmons.

Buy Debbie's Book:  The Heart of Legacy

Connect with Jill O’Boyle:

Website
Instagram - @jeoboyle
Facebook -  @jilloboylecoach  /  @jill.oboyle
LinkedIn

All the links

✨ Rooted & Real Retreat
A transformational retreat experience for women ready to step out of survival mode, reconnect with themselves, and create space for what matters most. Learn more here: Rooted & Real 

✨ Natural Wellness Support
Looking for natural support for stress, burnout, energy, hormones, or menopause? Jill shares the all-natural plant-extract drops that have helped her and many others take back their life naturally. 

Learn more here: Plant-Extract Drops

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Transcript

Jill O'Boyle (00:03.911)
Well, hello everybody and welcome back to your life, your story rise up. I'm your host Jill O'Boyle and today's conversation is one that I think so many women are going to just deeply resonate with. If you've ever found yourself carrying the weight of pressure, burnout or feeling like the version of you that once worked just doesn't fit anymore, I believe that this episode is gonna be perfect for you. Today I am gonna be joined with Debbie Simmons.

Debbie is a keynote speaker, an author, a leadership strategist, and a CEO of Anchor Point. She's known as the legacy architect, where she guides high capacity leaders from success into significance and lives of lasting impact. Her work is built on what she calls the architecture of trust, which is the principles that, the principle that where you place your trust determines both your success and the legacy you build.

Debbie, it's such an honor to have you here with me today. Thank you so much for coming on and welcome to the show.

Debbie Simmons (01:08.738)
Thank you, I'm excited to be here with you guys.

Jill O'Boyle (01:11.941)
Yeah, absolutely. think your story when we met, thought, you're a perfect candidate to come on and talk to my audience of high achieving women who are doing all the things and probably that sometimes they're like, why am I doing all of these things? We get to a point where we're so frustrated and overwhelmed that we have to kind of stop and say, why am I doing all of this?

Debbie Simmons (01:27.448)
Yeah.

Jill O'Boyle (01:35.271)
So before we get into kind of the work that you do, I'd love, know, your life, your story, right? That's the basis of this podcast is sharing stories, which is something that I love to do. So I'd love to just start with your story. What were some of the, you know, life experiences that really just shaped this message that you now are carrying forward?

Debbie Simmons (01:59.678)
Sure, okay. Well, what I like to tell people is like buckle your seatbelt because it's full of highs and it's full of lows and it's still a great story. God is writing a great story. yeah, so I would tell you when I was a young kid, probably a young teenager, I really wanted to be, I had this idea that I wanted to be this young grandma. And so I knew I had to find a guy, fall in love, get married, have children and that's

Jill O'Boyle (02:11.045)
Always, always.

Jill O'Boyle (02:22.385)
No.

Debbie Simmons (02:27.5)
I could be this young grandma. And so I'm a girl that gets things done. And so I went to college, found a guy, fell in love, got married, and then ran slap into infertility issues for years. And after about five years, we got pregnant. We thought we were pregnant with twins. I had an attempted miscarriage, went into the high risk doctor's office and came out with the diagnosis of

Jill O'Boyle (02:32.371)
Yeah.

Debbie Simmons (02:56.95)
you are carrying quads, not twins. So four babies all at one time. the goal became to get, you know, what we thought we could control at that point was totally out of control when they set four. I was like, I don't know how we do this. And at that point, I'm an engineer, I'm the breadwinner, my husband's in graduate school, and they're going, hey, you know, in a couple of weeks, we're going to put you on bed rest. I'm like, my gosh, how do you do this?

Jill O'Boyle (03:23.635)
I don't sit down. That's not me.

Debbie Simmons (03:27.022)
And so the goal became to get these babies to 30 weeks. And every day was a miracle to make it to the next day because in a high risk pregnancy, everything is just complicated. And so, and it's also hurry up and wait, hurry up and wait, hurry up and wait, hurry up and wait. so as we went through that, we started just trusting God each day as we went and then.

At 26 weeks, I found myself standing in water and realizing that one of the baby's sacs had ruptured. And so they decided that I had to go in the hospital. And I went in the hospital with the goal of making it as long as I could. It was about 26 weeks. I needed to make it to 30. The next morning, I had contractions just come crashing in. And one of the babies had stuck a hand through my stitch cervix and was waving to the world. I'm coming.

And I'm looking at the doctor going, it's too early. I don't know what we have to do, but stick that hand back and let's forget that this ever happened. And she's going, nope, you're going to have to deliver that baby. And I'm going, it's too soon. so a little while later, little Zach came and they placed him in my arms and I held him and I rocked him and I loved him until he drifted into eternity. And then we sat.

Jill O'Boyle (04:24.775)
Yeah.

Debbie Simmons (04:50.326)
and waited with empty arms wondering if my body would be able to carry the other three. And a couple hours went by. My body kind of went crazy and was sick and all this stuff and the doctor finally came back in and she said, you have to induce the other three. You're getting too sick. And so we induced the other three and Josh and then Nate and then.

Chris each came and they landed in my arms and I held them and I rocked them and I loved them until they drifted off into eternity. And at the end of all that, we sat with empty arms and broken hearts, because you don't go to the hospital planning funerals, celebrating births, right? And so that began a journey for me of, you know, I'd been a Christian for a long time, but it became a journey for me of

Jill O'Boyle (05:29.863)
Yeah.

No.

Right.

Debbie Simmons (05:45.327)
how do I figure my way through this? And as I made my way through this, God taught me lots of things, but part of that journey was surrendering my story to Him and saying, hey, will you take my story and make something of it? That wasn't in the middle of my grief, that was as I got better, right? And so as I gave it to Him, He then took us on a journey of me working with families that have lost children, working with grief groups.

Jill O'Boyle (05:56.05)
Mm-hmm.

Jill O'Boyle (06:01.437)
Sure.

Debbie Simmons (06:14.644)
I left, I felt called out of my engineering career. I went and got a seminary degree. You put me on church staffs. And then we landed at a church in South Carolina. We're in Texas. We went to South Carolina and there my husband and I finally were like, okay, God, we know that we love children and you potentially want us to have them. And I'm thinking, I'm not getting any older. So we got to make a plan.

Jill O'Boyle (06:19.069)
Mmm.

Jill O'Boyle (06:43.505)
Hahaha!

Debbie Simmons (06:44.628)
And I still have this desire to be a young grandma, right? And so, so I was like, okay, God, what do we do? And this is where we begin having the discussion about whether or not we'd be open to adoption. And God led us down the adoption road. We've adopted three times. We've adopted sibling group of five and then sibling group of two and then sibling group of two. So nine total kids that come from trauma backgrounds and

Jill O'Boyle (06:47.57)
Yeah.

Jill O'Boyle (07:09.01)
Wow.

Debbie Simmons (07:12.032)
really hard stories and they both stretched me and taught me a lot about resilience and about how we can overcome and just learning to trust God with my insufficiency, you know, as a mom and wondering if I could parent these kids and be the mom that they needed. So, you know, that whole journey has been ongoing for quite a while and then God just said,

Jill O'Boyle (07:17.917)
Yeah.

Jill O'Boyle (07:27.08)
Mm-hmm.

Jill O'Boyle (07:32.776)
Yeah.

Debbie Simmons (07:40.655)
And he led me to work in prison ministry for a while. So I ran prison ministry for Chuck Colson for about four states for several years. And then I really felt like God was telling me, okay, now I want you to start a ministry. And I'm like, are you kidding me? I'm like, have seven kids and I have a mission. I work in a ministry. have a mission, full-time mission field at home and you want me to go start a ministry? I'm like, no, you stopped at the wrong door.

Jill O'Boyle (07:54.771)
Right.

Jill O'Boyle (08:07.623)
Mm-hmm.

Debbie Simmons (08:10.338)
Go find someone else. I'm like, this will take too much time, too much energy, too much money. No, I can't do this. And what I've learned with God is that he much prefers yeses and he will wait until he gets it. And so he waited. Eventually, was a really, this was a really good learning lesson for me because I became a yes girl after this is I continued to say no. And eventually he took my job away in about a week.

Jill O'Boyle (08:16.754)
Yeah.

Jill O'Boyle (08:24.477)
Yeah, till it gets it.

Jill O'Boyle (08:34.451)
Mmm.

Debbie Simmons (08:40.238)
And it was so painful that I went, I never want to do that again. And after everything settled, after the job went away, God was like, do you have time now? And I'm like, fine, have plenty of time, I have plenty of time. And I'm like, I don't know anything about nonprofits. I don't know how to start one, I don't know anything. And so I just did the next best step and...

Jill O'Boyle (08:40.787)
Wow.

Jill O'Boyle (08:53.523)
You

Jill O'Boyle (09:05.555)
Mmm.

Debbie Simmons (09:06.636)
That ministry now is going on 16 years old. It impacts thousands every year. It's huge and a real blessing to families and parents and all this kind of stuff. And it's bigger than even I could dream or imagine. like now God was like, okay, well now we got to make a plan for one day you're not gonna lead this ministry and you want it to still be here impacting people. And so.

Jill O'Boyle (09:34.002)
Yeah.

Debbie Simmons (09:34.411)
I'm going to move you over into speaking and writing your first book and coaching and doing all this stuff in addition to doing the ministry. And I was like, really? Really? And he's like, yeah, but I'm like going, I do want to have the ministry be here long after I'm gone. And so we started down that venture. We, you know, I finished my first book, The Heart of Legacy and

Jill O'Boyle (09:47.345)
Yeah.

Jill O'Boyle (09:54.749)
Yeah.

Debbie Simmons (10:00.49)
It's my story plus the story of Anchor Point, the ministry, and God is using that in people's lives. And so that's been a wonderful thing. And then I continue to grow, but it's been a, what I find is that my journey has lots of highs and lows, but it also requires me to learn to step out in faith more and more and more. So being a yes girl, I don't need any answers about the future. Just tell me the next step now. I'm like, I don't even, that's too much worry and anxiety.

What are we doing today? And let's do that. And so that's been, that's really been my journey. And so now I did just so your listeners don't feel like I left them on the hook. I do have 15 grand babies. So I do have grand babies and I love hanging with them and being able play with them and do all the fun things that I get to do with them. So that's my story.

Jill O'Boyle (10:31.783)
What are we doing today, Lord? Yeah.

Jill O'Boyle (10:38.152)
Yeah.

Jill O'Boyle (10:47.046)
Yay?

Jill O'Boyle (10:51.729)
Yes.

Jill O'Boyle (10:55.301)
Mm-hmm. my gosh, what an incredible story and just thank you for your sharing that. And I love seeing just like how you illustrated it. It's highs and it's lows. You know, when you first started talking, I said the first thing that came to my mind is when the plan takes a detour, right? And we tend to have our...

Debbie Simmons (11:17.496)
Mm-hmm.

Jill O'Boyle (11:22.003)
plan and our way all figured out. We think this is how my life is going to go. Or maybe I grew up watching my parents live this life and I think my life is going to follow suit and this is how it's going to go. And I think, you know, your intention of like, want to be a young grandma and this is going to be it. And then infertility just slaps you, you know, here comes the door and it's like, no.

Debbie Simmons (11:43.628)
Yeah.

Jill O'Boyle (11:46.803)
Nope, quite that easy. We're gonna... And so I just... But I love that in your story, I just heard you saying, I just kept taking the next obedient step. I kept saying yes to God. Now, sometimes I talk about I have been a yes girl my life too. Not in that way though. I've been a yes girl...

was saying yes to all the things and then wondering why I said yes to all the things. It was in Jill's control what she felt like she needed to say yes to because well that's what I should do or I might achieve something if I say yes to this. So I'm just curious in your because that was a lot of trauma. There was a lot of hardship. I'm sure there's a lot of pain a lot of grief. How did you move?

into trusting, you know, God through the heart? Was there something that you eventually just held onto through that journey?

Debbie Simmons (12:53.642)
Yeah, okay, so it's really fascinating. A lot of people think that I probably learned, you know, struggled with the trust after losing the boys. I actually struggled more with trusting God in the infertility. And then, you know, as I made my way through the infertility, because the infertility caused me to question who I am. This was an identity issue, right? Is it, am I only

Jill O'Boyle (13:03.165)
Yeah.

Jill O'Boyle (13:19.026)
Yeah.

Debbie Simmons (13:22.382)
godly wife and woman and all that God wants me to be if I can have children, you know, and then I've got this deep desire for children. I'm assuming that that comes from God because God says children are a blessing and all this stuff and then I'm having so much trouble and around me in the world I see all these people getting pregnant who don't care, don't even want their baby and I'm like

Jill O'Boyle (13:29.171)
Jill O'Boyle (13:45.469)
Mm-hmm.

Debbie Simmons (13:50.113)
Okay, God, don't, for me, that was the real hard thing because that felt more like a job experience. Like, my gosh, I just don't understand. And when we got pregnant, I was super grateful. But at the same time, I'm like, okay, well, two at a time, I want four, so we'll just do it twice if it's gonna take this long. And you would think that, okay, you had all this trouble and you get two, you think you miscarry, you end up with four.

Jill O'Boyle (13:59.174)
Yeah.

Jill O'Boyle (14:10.876)
Yeah.

Debbie Simmons (14:19.75)
and you are choosing to carry those lives, which a lot of people would have maybe not chosen to carry all of them. And I'm trying to be obedient in that and all this. And then it's like, okay, now they're not gonna get to stay. And I'm like, I don't understand. So when I found myself sitting in the hospital,

Trust wasn't the issue because I knew that was the only way through, but I did sit in the hospital that night, and most people struggle with this and come to this decision later, but the very night that I sat in the hospital, I mean, I remember just sitting there going, how in the world am I gonna figure my way through this? I'm like going, this is really hard, and I don't know how to do this.

Jill O'Boyle (14:50.653)
Sure.

Jill O'Boyle (15:05.555)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Hard.

Debbie Simmons (15:12.97)
And so I sat there for a long time and I was like, how do people figure their way through this? And I tried to come up with every, know, cause I'm the planner, I got to get it done, right? So I'm like sitting there and the only thing that I can figure out is I just have to trust God. I just have to trust him. I could come up with no other answer. like, I don't know how people get through hard things. This is the only way I know to do it. And so I was like, okay, God.

Jill O'Boyle (15:31.827)
Mm-hmm.

Debbie Simmons (15:41.527)
And this is, it's almost like this discussion is like happening in real time when I say this, like with him, I'm like, okay, God, I'm gonna trust you. I'm putting a stake in the ground. I'm gonna trust you. And then I'm like, why does this have to happen? Right? Because that's the first question that you and I let go to is why. And so I'm like, look, if you tell me why, and I can understand that, then I can figure my way. And God gently whispers to me,

Jill O'Boyle (15:54.835)
Right. Why? Yeah.

Debbie Simmons (16:09.12)
I need you to give me your why. And I was like, no, that's it. This is too much. I'm like, no, no, no. You need to give me my answer to why because then I can figure my way through this. And it's the last thing I have. I don't have the voice. I don't have a way to fix any of that. If you could just tell me the why, then I could keep going. And he kept saying,

Jill O'Boyle (16:28.007)
Hmm

Debbie Simmons (16:38.232)
give me the why, give me the why, give me the why. And finally, I just was like, fine, I'll give you the why. And I'm like, stop it, I'll give me the why. And so I gave him the why. And this is what I really learned to understand sitting there that night was that, you know, if God himself would have physically shown up in my hospital room and told me the exact why, like the exact answer and why it had to happen this way and all this stuff.

Jill O'Boyle (16:46.449)
Yeah.

Jill O'Boyle (17:00.883)
told you.

Debbie Simmons (17:06.624)
I would have looked him in the face and said, why? Because that's not good enough. It doesn't take away because what I'm really looking for is I want my boys back. I want you to take away this pain. I don't want to have to go through this. Right. And so why becomes a very internal question that keeps me stuck. Okay. And eventually it becomes like a tornado and it just has a

Jill O'Boyle (17:11.204)
Mm-hmm. That's not good enough.

Jill O'Boyle (17:18.876)
Yeah.

Jill O'Boyle (17:31.379)
Sure.

Debbie Simmons (17:35.503)
a sinkhole that you land in and you begin to isolate you do all these things and so he was it was so gracious that he forced me into the corner to finally go okay I'll give it to you and I was like okay you got my why I don't know that was my best attempt at trying to figure my way out of this situation and I'm like what do I what do I do and he taught me ask me what is

Jill O'Boyle (17:38.268)
Yeah.

Jill O'Boyle (17:47.816)
Ha

Debbie Simmons (18:04.812)
the next, know, ask him this question of how do I survive? And I was like, okay, how do I survive? And he was like, he was like, I need you to breathe. And that caused me to kind of calm down and be able to focus and get into my prefrontal cortex versus reacting emotionally. And then he said, I need you to take the next best step. He didn't tell me what that step was. He didn't require it to be the right step. He said, take the next best step.

Jill O'Boyle (18:13.362)
Yes.

Jill O'Boyle (18:22.183)
Mm-hmm.

Debbie Simmons (18:34.752)
And so, you know, we can do that with friends, we can do that ourselves, but you know, however, what is the next best step for me? There were days back then when the next best step was pull the covers off my head, get up, brush my teeth and walk around for five minutes and then get back in the bed. But that was positive motion. All he's looking for is for us to take positive motion forward. Okay. And then what he will do is he will come and meet me. He'll shine a light at my feet and show me the next step.

And then we do this process over and over and over again. This is how he taught me how to work through and grief because grief is a, you know, after a major loss like that is really a one or two year process because you're having to learn what a new normal feels like for you because it never goes back to being the same. And so, those, you know, and then as I got better, the question changed from how do I survive to how do I thrive? And that is where

Jill O'Boyle (19:22.449)
Yeah, yeah.

Debbie Simmons (19:34.414)
He's the redeemer of stories and I get to go, here's my story. Make something of it. Now, I didn't know it was gonna be, you know, do this, do this, do this. It's all been very good. So I don't regret any of it, but I'm like, If you'd have told me from the beginning, I would have said no.

Jill O'Boyle (19:37.478)
Here's your story.

Jill O'Boyle (19:43.963)
Did it?

Jill O'Boyle (19:49.563)
Yeah. Yes.

Yeah, exactly. No, thank you for sharing that. I think that's gonna help women to just identify in their own story, where are they living in that survival mode? And it's so easy to get caught up in the why. It's so easy to get up in the why. mean, your background, you said you came from engineering. So I can only imagine. Engineers are always thinking about why does this do this? How can we fix it? How can we control this outcome? And so when you're...

Debbie Simmons (20:03.171)
Mm-hmm.

Debbie Simmons (20:08.308)
Yeah.

Debbie Simmons (20:12.078)
Mm-hmm.

Jill O'Boyle (20:22.451)
identity is kind of formed in, you know, I think I have a lot of listeners who have an identity shaped by who they are in their job, what they do in their work, in their title. And so you've come from an engineering background and you've found yourself here in this situation where you're, I feel like almost your identity has completely kind of shifted per se, would you say?

Debbie Simmons (20:48.11)
Well, I would say we had to swap to placing my identity in things or things that I accomplish or jobs that I hold. And really, I have to understand that my identity is solely rooted in Christ and that I've literally performed for an audience of one. And so it does not matter what I'm doing or whatever, it is literally all about that relationship.

Jill O'Boyle (21:01.907)
That's right.

Debbie Simmons (21:13.65)
And that is where my true identity comes from, which I think is, you know, it's steady, it's sure fast, it, you know, it sets everything straight and then it puts everything else in perspective. But those questions, the why and how do I survive and how do I thrive, that was 30 plus years ago. I still use those questions now, you know, and I mean, as a CEO, I ended up with a lawsuit a few years back and

Jill O'Boyle (21:35.763)
Sure. Yeah.

Debbie Simmons (21:42.499)
you know, when that lawsuit came to my office, I was like, why that and why that and I realized, okay, that's going to get me stuck. I better stop and okay, how do I survive? And my staff's like, how are we going to survive? said, I don't know, but I know the one who does. And so we're going to talk to him and he is going to show us how to do it. And he is not surprised by where we sit right this moment. And that I think is

Jill O'Boyle (22:00.007)
Yeah, so good.

Debbie Simmons (22:09.984)
If we can teach that to one, to ourselves, know, God teach it to us and then we teach it through us to our children or to my staff or whoever have the ability to influence. You know, I had a friend that had brain cancer and he's a great Christian guy, but he and I were sitting quietly talking and he had this love hate relationship with me. And I was like, you know, you're gonna get healed.

it's just a matter of whether it's this side of heaven or the other side. And I said, but you now have the opportunity to teach your children how to walk through suffering well. And he's like, I hate you. I'm like, I know, and, and, and he struggled with that, but he did so beautifully and he has passed on, but he did so beautifully in the end. And I look at his wife and his children.

Jill O'Boyle (22:56.647)
That's answer I wanted.

Debbie Simmons (23:09.6)
and how they've been able to walk through that. And really, you know, it's been a struggle, but they haven't missed a beat. And to know that they know how to now, because of the way their dad modeled it, they know how to walk through that is so, so powerful for people.

Jill O'Boyle (23:28.135)
Yeah, I love that. I was reading your bio and you mentioned in your bio you talked about the obedience engine. Can you explain what that means? And is that kind of what you were just sharing a little bit there with your friend?

Debbie Simmons (23:39.223)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So for instance, when we look at like the concept that I work with CEOs on is this architecture of trust. And it literally says that we all place our trust. You we look when we look at it from a company level in the structure of the company, we place a certain level of trust on leadership alignment, decision clarity, execution, reliability. And when that trust in the structure is not strong, then the system will fail. OK. And that's how we learn to

Jill O'Boyle (23:59.367)
Yeah, absolutely.

Jill O'Boyle (24:07.387)
Mmm.

Debbie Simmons (24:08.866)
build better companies and companies that will last and endure without us as leaders. But individually, the architecture of trust would say is that you and I trust something. So I say that I trust God. Okay. And the way we test that is when the pressure goes up. Okay. And it will life will bring pressure. Right. So if I say, okay, yes, I trust God, I trust God in everything. When the pressure goes up,

Jill O'Boyle (24:14.705)
Yeah.

Jill O'Boyle (24:32.295)
Mm-hmm.

Debbie Simmons (24:37.944)
how do I respond? Well, my natural default that I've learned over the years is I prefer to control and hustle. All right? And guess what? The world tells me that's a good quality. All right? And guess what? This ministry got built by control and hustle. Okay? But here's what we know, that Anchor Point can't go to the next level if Debbie is controlling and hustling.

Jill O'Boyle (24:46.097)
Yeah. Yep.

Jill O'Boyle (24:51.975)
That's right.

Debbie Simmons (25:05.934)
Because Debbie has limitations and if she can't show up a hundred percent and I did I got a leg injury about five years ago got infected it should have killed me and I couldn't perform at a hundred percent and if what happened in my business in the ministry we began to see cracks and Those are trust leaks. That's not a problem. It just is Identifying where the system is weak and we've got to fix that and Debbie personally she goes to control

Why does she go to control? Let's think about it. In her story, she loses children and the infertility, everything is out of my control. So my default for survival now will be, I need to get it under control. Do you what saying? And when I go to control, that means that I am not trusting God. Because He says I can have...

Jill O'Boyle (25:45.267)
control. Yeah.

Jill O'Boyle (25:51.207)
Yep. Yep.

Debbie Simmons (26:00.654)
love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, gentleness, self-control, all of those things, even in very difficult situations. So, am I leaning in or am I trying to do the things I need? Control, hustle, silence, avoidance, all these things that we do. And so what I need to look at for me personally, and this is kind of how the obedience engine works, God says, if you love me, you will obey me.

Jill O'Boyle (26:03.091)
Hmm

Debbie Simmons (26:30.56)
Okay, I don't like that. but he said it and I'm like obey is stronger than love. Okay, I got to do this. and so when he says, you know, stay in alignment with me. So as soon as you realize you're moving from keeping your eye on me, staying centered on me, we've got to go through this process of getting back in line and making shifts and adjustments.

Jill O'Boyle (26:30.951)
Very true. Yep. Yep. Yep.

Yeah.

Debbie Simmons (26:57.386)
so that we know that we do trust God, right? Okay, so it may not be anything huge, but like let's say something happens and I go into control mode, okay? Let's take my staff for instance, or if you got children, this happens all the time. My children are going crazy or my grandchildren, I'm like, I gotta control that because I can't have this, you know, can't, you know. So I start to step in and I realize, okay, I...

Jill O'Boyle (27:00.936)
Yeah.

Jill O'Boyle (27:12.7)
Mm-hmm.

Jill O'Boyle (27:20.018)
Yeah.

Debbie Simmons (27:26.882)
become very sharp in my tone, I might be quick in my actions. I just am not the person that I would like to be in those situations. And so I realize that, then what I've gotta do is I've gotta take the time and go, okay, what in me is causing me to feel like I need to act like that, to step in like that? What is it in me that God needs to heal?

Jill O'Boyle (27:38.163)
Sure.

Debbie Simmons (27:53.003)
so that I can be completely at peace in that situation, even though it's difficult. And then, you know, I can look at like, if I keep controlling, what are the ramifications of that? And if I can live at peace, what are the ramifications of that? Because everything has consequences. Some are good, some are bad. And so if I go, okay, I want to be able to trust God, what do I need to change next time the pressure goes up so that I don't jump to default?

Jill O'Boyle (28:09.459)
Sure.

Debbie Simmons (28:22.294)
So maybe it's a simple thing like I need to memorize a verse or this is what I teach my grandchildren to do. Whenever things get, the pressure goes up, they all say, Jesus help me. Okay, that's just what comes out of their mouth. Okay, Jesus help me. If it's the dark, if it's, you know, I gotta do this, I gotta jump in the pool, I gotta do something, Jesus help me, Jesus help me, Jesus help me. So maybe that is what I say.

Jill O'Boyle (28:36.445)
Love it.

Jill O'Boyle (28:49.65)
Yeah.

Debbie Simmons (28:49.752)
to recenter me and get my eyes back on him. And that's what I put in place, okay? Life goes on, I live in my life, guess what? The pressure will go up again. And this time, will I use that new technique, use that new structure, whatever it is, will I default there instead of to control? Maybe for a little while or maybe successfully, but what I will do is I will learn and then I'm gonna see where

Jill O'Boyle (28:58.248)
Right.

Jill O'Boyle (29:14.899)
Sure.

Debbie Simmons (29:19.892)
It leaks again and I'm going to make adjustments. This is actually just our journey of life. This is it. Over and over again, it's leaning back in, leaning back in, leaning back in, and that is the steps of the obedience engine itself.

Jill O'Boyle (29:26.203)
Yeah, yeah, over and over.

Jill O'Boyle (29:37.157)
I love that, I love that. And it's so practical, because like you said, it's just the life that we live. And like kids, they fall, they make mistakes, they learn again, they're like, why did I do that? Let me not do that again, let's, you know? So, love that. You have also talked about, I love leaving, your book is called, did you say Heart of a Legacy? The Heart of Legacy. So I love, in your bio as well, you talked about

Debbie Simmons (29:49.41)
Yes!

Debbie Simmons (30:00.109)
heart of legacy. Yeah.

Jill O'Boyle (30:06.705)
you know, we're not created to merely, you know, create success, you know, or pursue success, but to leave a legacy worth living and leaving. So how do you define, you know, legacy differently than success?

Debbie Simmons (30:24.492)
Yeah, so success is what we get like right now. It's like I run a race and I went that's success. Okay, it's it's short. It's it's those things where you get there and you end up going is that really all there is? I just did the marathon and I'm like, yeah, that was great. But that's that's it, you know. Yeah, and I got the medal, which is great. But and I and I can chalk that up as an achievement. But I'm like,

Jill O'Boyle (30:38.438)
Mmm, yeah.

Jill O'Boyle (30:44.64)
Yeah, all that work and pain

Jill O'Boyle (30:53.021)
Sure.

Debbie Simmons (30:54.39)
Is that really all there is? so legacy is really what we want to leave. What do we want to leave behind that lasts forever? Right? Okay. So whether those are qualities or whether those are things or money, it's not just money, but like, I remember when I finally said yes to God about starting Anchor Point, I did it because I was like, I remember being in the hospital room going,

Eternity matters. And so how I choose to live my life will make or break a lot of things in between, right? And so I want to be very intentional and I just have been very intentional since that day in the hospital about, God, what do you want me to do? Because I want at the end to be able to leave a legacy, but I know that I cannot leave it if I do not live it.

Okay, and that is really the difference for me. So could a marathon be part of leaving that legacy? Sure, but it's not the whole thing. And so I think about like, you know, with AnchorPoint and successfully transitioning out of my leadership one day is I'm like going, I get excited about thinking about like, I'm in heaven and Jesus and I are having a conversation and I'm going, look AnchorPoint still running and there's a girl being helped. And I'm like,

Jill O'Boyle (31:52.743)
Yeah.

Jill O'Boyle (32:16.307)
Love that.

Debbie Simmons (32:18.178)
Thank you so much for letting me be a part of that. That's like super cool, you know? And so people can be impacted for decades and decades and decades after I'm gone if we set this up right. And I think about that and I think that is what makes God smile is when we are working to do those things so that it does make that lasting impact from that.

Jill O'Boyle (32:23.858)
Love it.

Jill O'Boyle (32:43.666)
Yeah.

Debbie Simmons (32:44.318)
that perspective. that's really the different, know, success is really temporal in my mind. Legacy is lasting and it's way bigger, you know, a lot of people just talk about money, but it's way bigger than that and everything. So I love this idea of leaving a legacy by living it now.

Jill O'Boyle (32:48.881)
Mm-hmm

Jill O'Boyle (32:56.401)
way bigger. Yeah.

Jill O'Boyle (33:03.889)
Yeah, love that. And you're building up his kingdom, right? mean, of just pain, you know, something that you started that is going to continue to build. so I love that. So a lot of the women that listened to this podcast, I think live in that hustle mentality that you talked about before of control and hustle, and stuck in survival mode. And so just you've shared.

Debbie Simmons (33:08.302)
Mm-hmm.

Debbie Simmons (33:25.014)
I'm going to

Debbie Simmons (33:30.496)
This is my tribe.

Jill O'Boyle (33:33.253)
Right? These are your people. I know these are your people. and you've shared so much already that I think there's just little nuggets that I'm going to need to play back again and again myself. but talk to me and the ladies listening, cause you've already shared a lot, but what would you say to these women that are living their lives in that survival, reactive control hustle out of everything that you've kind of shared today? What's something that you really want to drill home to them?

that you've learned or God has taught you.

Debbie Simmons (34:05.942)
Yeah, okay, so here's what I would say. I would say just stop. Just stop. And I don't mean like stop everything you're doing. I mean pause and give yourself some quiet space because we just don't have that anymore, okay? It's very funny as I, it just seems like so counterintuitive as I have

Jill O'Boyle (34:11.74)
Hmm.

Jill O'Boyle (34:25.095)
Right.

Debbie Simmons (34:31.702)
gotten busier, busier, busier and added more things onto my plate. In the morning when I do, I have a sauna and I do my Devo in the sauna and I'm like, okay, I gotta, I gotta get going. I gotta get going. And God's like, I need you to sit still. And I'm like, dude, this doesn't seem like it's gonna be successful. like,

Jill O'Boyle (34:46.717)
Got it.

Jill O'Boyle (34:54.611)
Me sitting here is not producing anything, Lord.

Debbie Simmons (34:59.284)
you for real?" And he's like, yes, I need you to rest and be quiet for a minute. And I'm like, that turns into like 30 minutes. Sometimes it's crazy. And I'm like, okay. And so I'll sit there. But it's so interesting that when I do and I just calm the noise and I'm just like, okay, God, what do you want me to know today? Okay. And now that you've told me what you want me to know today,

What do you want me to do today? Because in the end, that's all that matters. Okay? And it's so interesting, because I get a really good to-do, LaSalle, that usually, but that's my day in the right direction to know that I'm not off on the Debbie train, that I am doing what he, I believe he has revealed to me, and it's just fascinating. so, but that requires us to stop. And I mean, I go.

Jill O'Boyle (35:32.465)
Yeah. Yeah.

Jill O'Boyle (35:54.086)
It does.

Debbie Simmons (35:56.407)
You know, I've gotten better over the years and I'm better at sitting still longer. But I mean, most of us can't sit still without talking or being on our phone for like three minutes. That's like an eternity. And I'm like, what do do with all this free time? I remember some friends that had us one go and they said, let's go do a prayer day. We're going to do four hours of prayer, contemplative prayer. I'm like, four hours? I'm like,

Jill O'Boyle (36:00.977)
Yeah.

Jill O'Boyle (36:06.553)
Exactly. Yeah. Yeah.

Jill O'Boyle (36:18.899)
you

Jill O'Boyle (36:22.355)
Four hours?

Debbie Simmons (36:24.878)
by myself and I'm like, how in the world am I gonna do that? And anyway, it turned out it was really good, but I mean, it was kind of hard at first to get started, but as we would meet back together every hour and just talk about what God was showing us and then we'd go for another hour and then we'd come back for 10 minutes or so. And it was really challenging, but it was really good. And I think we just moved too fast and...

Jill O'Boyle (36:48.177)
Yeah.

Jill O'Boyle (36:52.435)
We do, we do.

Debbie Simmons (36:53.55)
We've got the phone always and everything and it's just overwhelming. you know, so that would be my thing is stop, listen and do what he tells you. And, you know, it's crazy if you and I are brave enough to go, okay, God, what are we doing that you would that we what are we doing for you that you didn't ask us to do? Yeah, I'm I'm like.

Jill O'Boyle (36:57.595)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I love that. Stop. Yeah.

Jill O'Boyle (37:18.291)
girl. I didn't ask you to do that. You just went ahead and did it and asked me to bless it. Yeah.

Debbie Simmons (37:22.264)
Okay, okay. And it's, yeah. That's right. And so it's going to require, will it require, you know, it's interesting because the harder choices are between better and best and not, you know, not bad and good, you know, because those are the ones that are really good, but we have to make those decisions. And, you know, if he's going to expand our territory and expand what we can do,

then we've got to learn to be strategic and aligned with exactly what we he's calling us to do because we just are not going to have the bandwidth to do it. And it's already going to be hard. So there's going to be struggles and everything along the way. So we just have to stay focused on that.

Jill O'Boyle (38:08.529)
Yeah, yeah, no, I love that. Just stop and pause. And so for the lady listening right now that I can hear her literally saying this, I want to do that. I just don't know how. For somebody like that, is there tools that you've used? Do you books? I mean, I know the Bible is a great, great one to just open and start reading in the morning. But for somebody that maybe hasn't even opened up a Bible and that feels intimidating.

Debbie Simmons (38:30.284)
Yeah, that a great reference.

Jill O'Boyle (38:38.353)
What is your like a practical tip that you might just say to just start to even know how to discern the voice of God in that slowing down and pausing?

Debbie Simmons (38:49.912)
Well, here's the deal. Jamie Winship taught me this, but you know what? The truth of the matter is we hear voices in our head all the time. Okay? I hear ones that go, you suck at what you're doing. I don't think you can do this. I hear that all the time, right? And sometimes it's me and sometimes it's other things, but I'm going, so we know how to hear voices. The problem is, is that he speaks in a very soft voice.

Jill O'Boyle (38:57.191)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah.

Jill O'Boyle (39:05.572)
Me too, yep.

Jill O'Boyle (39:12.519)
Yeah.

Debbie Simmons (39:19.4)
And it requires us to lean in. So literally, to make it easy for you, I literally go, in the name of Jesus, just silence the noise. And like, just go on a walk, literally, just silence the noise for me. Help me hear you. And then I love that question, because it's so easy, of what do you want me to know? And then just see what comes to mind. And a lot of times we say voice.

Jill O'Boyle (39:29.043)
Hmm.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Debbie Simmons (39:47.489)
And I don't believe God limits himself to just voices. It can be pictures, it could be things you see, it can be things you touch and feel, it can be all kinds of things. So usually what I just tell people is just see what comes to mind. And write that down or, you know, asking, what, you know, let's say a school bus came to mind. I'm like, okay, God, what do need to know about a school bus? Yeah, I'm just...

Jill O'Boyle (39:52.187)
I agree.

Jill O'Boyle (40:01.339)
Yeah. Yeah.

Jill O'Boyle (40:06.631)
Mm-hmm.

Jill O'Boyle (40:10.397)
Yeah.

school bus. Yeah.

Debbie Simmons (40:16.158)
see what he says. Yeah. And then, and then I love this question of, okay, what do you want me to know? And what do you want me to do? Sometimes I don't feel like I get the answer to what do want me to do? But I do swap it up and I go, okay, what would it look like if I was doing that well? Okay? And I might not get the answer to that, but let me tell you the one I always get the answer to. I try and skip this one, but I, but this is what I get the answers to is,

Jill O'Boyle (40:17.287)
He's creative, right?

Jill O'Boyle (40:29.267)
Hmm.

Jill O'Boyle (40:42.93)
Hahaha

Debbie Simmons (40:45.398)
What does it look like when I don't do that well? I get that answer all the time. I'm like, that's not good. I got to swap that. So I think that, you know, let the pressure be off. This isn't the end of the world or life and death and just rest in it. And so I go, hey, and a lot of times if I can't quiet the noise, I might listen to one of my favorite Christian songs or worship song or something like that, or read a particular

Jill O'Boyle (40:49.361)
Yeah. Yeah.

Debbie Simmons (41:14.446)
you know, a memory verse that I know or something like that, but generally I just go, what do you want me to know? What do you want me to know? And then what do you want me to do? And I don't always like the answer to that, but I do know what it is. And you know, the way this is, this is sometimes the way that you know that God is telling you something is when you hear it, you go, no way, you're kidding me. That's crazy.

Jill O'Boyle (41:20.509)
Yeah, I love that.

Jill O'Boyle (41:28.039)
Yeah. Yeah.

Debbie Simmons (41:41.687)
because it seems so strange to you. But think about it, like God takes people into battle in the Bible and he goes, don't do anything. I want you to sing and dance around the walls. Really? know, or whatever, or he's telling Sarah you're going to have a baby when you're 90 something and she's like, funny, that's funny. But that might be the biggest indicator is that, is that.

Jill O'Boyle (41:44.669)
Yeah.

Jill O'Boyle (41:48.925)
Mm-hmm.

Jill O'Boyle (41:54.865)
Really? Yeah. Really, Lord?

Jill O'Boyle (42:03.228)
Exactly.

Jill O'Boyle (42:09.359)
Is that, that's good. That seems really crazy. Yeah.

Debbie Simmons (42:10.368)
is like, my gosh, really? Yeah, you certainly didn't think up that, right? Because that would be the last thing on your mind and like, okay. And then we just take the next best step. And if we step toward that, don't let the pressure be there, just step toward it and do one thing and then let God.

Jill O'Boyle (42:18.277)
Right. Right.

Yes.

Yeah. Yeah.

Debbie Simmons (42:34.034)
of realign it a little bit. So maybe it was school bus and you were supposed to provide ice cream for the kids as they get off the school bus and you go to do that but it's so hot the ice cream melts so instead you do lemonade you know or something you know. God will guide you as to how that's supposed to happen and and he's faithful with that and I just keep going okay what am I supposed to do with that? I don't know what to do that.

Jill O'Boyle (42:52.029)
Yeah, yeah.

Jill O'Boyle (43:00.659)
But he will lead you and he'll keep leading you, right? Yeah.

Debbie Simmons (43:02.678)
Yeah, I'm a big strategy person. You can tell. OK, God, what are we doing?

Jill O'Boyle (43:09.939)
I love that. I love that. Well, thank you, Debbie, so much for just sharing just your story and your honesty and your wisdom. You know, I just just I resonate with you so much. And I think so many of the listeners are going to just really feel seen and encouraged and challenged in a good way to kind of just slow down, to pause, to listen and to let go of that control, which feels really hard for, you know.

high achieving women. I came from a project management background. So, you again, same thing. It's something learning. But I think that practical step right there is like something that I'm like, I can do that, right? You we can sit down and we can just, you know, in Jesus name, silence this noise and say, what do you want me to know, Lord? I mean, I love that and grab a pen and journal and just see what comes up. So.

Debbie Simmons (44:01.934)
Yeah, and if you're like me and you still got to get your walking in for the day, I'm just like, I'm going to walk and talk. Let's go.

Jill O'Boyle (44:09.019)
Yeah, absolutely. And I love that because I feel like I even hear like get God downloads or just talk to him in nature more. Because probably, you know, me and you are very similar. It's like when we're sitting, we're feeling like we're not doing something. So it's like for walking and talking, we're doing something and listening to God.

Debbie Simmons (44:16.823)
Yes?

Debbie Simmons (44:26.422)
Yes. Well, it's, this is just the last tip. It is when you are doing some physical activity is when your body is having to focus on doing all the other things that it has to do to do that physical activity, it actually releases your brain because your body is now having to focus on making these muscles move, do these things. So the movement and everything that we do actually takes the pressure off of

Jill O'Boyle (44:45.799)
Really?

Debbie Simmons (44:54.998)
you know, like trying to put cognitive load on us and it just gives us more brain space. So yeah.

Jill O'Boyle (45:00.221)
That's incredible, awesome. I did not know that. So there we go. For those people that wanna be achieving all the time, can, that's a great tip. Walk more. All right, so where can, what's the best place where listeners can connect with you, learn more about your work as well?

Debbie Simmons (45:07.84)
There you go. Talk more.

Yeah.

Debbie Simmons (45:19.736)
Sure, it's gonna be, it's gonna be, if they want, first of all, the book, The Heart of Legacy, is a blessing to all your listeners if they would like to get it. It's absolutely free. And you can get that at theheartoflegacy.com. And then to learn more about like what I do, you can go to thedepiSimmons.com and you'll find all the social media handles and all that good stuff. And you can find out more about the architecture of trust and just different things like that that we're doing on a regular basis.

Jill O'Boyle (45:24.583)
Yeah.

Jill O'Boyle (45:32.243)
Mm-hmm.

Jill O'Boyle (45:50.139)
Awesome. Thank you so much. I'll put both of those links in the show notes below. thank you so much, Debbie, for your time today. I truly enjoyed our conversation. I know the listeners will as well.

Debbie Simmons (46:02.454)
Yay, thanks for having me.

Jill O'Boyle (46:04.37)
Yeah.