Faith over Fear: A Journey to Sobriety & Purpose with Ashley Pennington

In this episode, Jill is joined with her guest Ashley Pennington, to discuss the challenges of navigating mental health and sobriety, especially during the holiday season.  Ashley candidly shares her personal journey of navigating alcoholism, disordered eating, and shame, shedding light on the pivotal moments that led to her recovery and five years of sobriety.

Together, they discuss the heightened stress and pressures of the holiday season, the importance of recognizing and addressing negative core beliefs, and the role of intentional relationships in fostering healing and growth.

Key Takeaways:

• Faith and community support are vital in the recovery journey.
• Vulnerability can be a powerful tool for personal growth and connection.
• Gratitude and intentionality can help navigate difficult times.
• You are not alone—hope and support are always within reach.

Learn more about Ashley Pennington.

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Transcript

Jill O'Boyle (00:03.192)
Well, hello friends and happy holidays. Welcome back to another episode of your life, your story rise up. I'm your host, Jill O'Boyle and I am so delighted that you tuned in today. And for those of you that just keep coming back, thank you so much. And if you're new here, welcome. I am so glad that you are here. So as we approach the holiday season, I am sure that many of you may feel just a mix of just

excitement and then maybe some overwhelm, right? It's that time when the pressures of family gatherings and gift giving and year end expectations can just heighten our stress a little and even bring up some maybe old triggers, especially for those navigating mental health challenges or sobriety. And so it's so easy this time of year to just get lost in that hustle, but

My hope for you today is that you'll be able to take a much needed pause and just allow yourself to just experience a breath of fresh air. Because today I am so thrilled to introduce our guest, Ashley Pennington. She is a wife, a mother, and a passionate advocate for mental health and sobriety. So Ashley's personal journey with overcoming alcoholism and disordered eating combined with her decades of experience in the mental health field makes her

I think the perfect voice to help us navigate this season with just intention and hope and grace. And so in today's conversation, we're gonna dive into her story of redemption through faith. She's gonna provide some practical advice for maintaining sobriety during stressful times and the importance of mental health. So especially as we face the unique challenges that.

of course the holidays can definitely bring. So if you're feeling overwhelmed or you're uncertain about how to stay grounded this season, Ashley's wisdom I know is gonna be just what you need. So let's dive in and Ashley, just thank you so much for being here today.

Ashley Pennington (02:11.204)
Thank you, thank you for having me today, Jill.

Jill O'Boyle (02:14.388)
Yes, I am so excited to dive into this topic. think it's going to resonate with so many of the listeners. And I am just so, you know, excited. We prayed before we got on here and that prayer was so, so true. I'm just so thankful for how God always just uniquely divines connections. And so I was inspired by your story at the Flourish Indie event. And I was like, this is one that I think more people need to hear. So excited to

to dive in. So with that, you you do have a powerful story and it's been a journey for you. And so you know, as I opened up in the bio, you have overcome alcoholism, a disordered eating. And so I would love if you could just share a little bit with the listeners, a little bit about you and your background and journey, you know, this far.

Ashley Pennington (03:07.478)
Yeah, absolutely. Well, again, thank you so much for having me and I'm with you. I love how God just connects us with the people that we need right in that moment. So yeah, I'm Ashley Pennington. am, first I'm a believer. I praise God. Thank you God for five years of sobriety. January 5th, 2018 is my sobriety date. I praise God.

Jill O'Boyle (03:29.836)
amazing.

Ashley Pennington (03:32.066)
my wife. my husband, Seth and I have been married for four years. We got married during COVID. So that is a story for another day. were micro weddings, but I will tell you was truly amazing. We got married in our backyard actually in our house. So pretty, pretty amazing. I'm a mama. So I have my fur baby, Frank, who is six. was our first born. He's a border collie poodle. is just our

Jill O'Boyle (03:39.037)
Hahaha

Jill O'Boyle (03:44.456)
that's awesome.

Jill O'Boyle (03:56.212)
Love it.

Ashley Pennington (04:00.77)
our love and then our son Jack, who's three, he turned three in October, who is just like, I'm loving this season with him. He is just, he's like my little best friend, my little buddy. So I'm loving this motherhood life. As Jill said, am, gosh, I've been in the mental healthcare industry for 15 years. It's been a journey, it's been a road. I have kind of, I have a master's in clinical psychology, so.

Jill O'Boyle (04:10.19)
Mmm.

Ashley Pennington (04:28.928)
started out originally working the floor in residential care treatment and have kind of stayed in residential care for all of those years. Worked in admissions, worked with insurance, most recently business development and working with guiding families into a robust continuum of care for their kids with primary mental health issues. And so all throughout that, I found that God was calling me to something deeper and

Jill O'Boyle (04:37.601)
Mm-hmm.

Ashley Pennington (04:58.232)
talk a little bit about shame. So I have a podcast as well called a penny for your thoughts, lifting shame and building community, which I literally just launched in September. was again, God starts moving through you and, and, and it, just was like, okay, we're going to do this. And I decided, know what? I need to tell my story. And so I had kind of left it.

Jill O'Boyle (05:10.569)
He does.

Ashley Pennington (05:24.77)
I mean, shame pretty much told me nobody cares. Shame was like, shame is you're unworthy of love. You're unworthy of anything, really. And so when I decided, a lot of people don't know my story and I'm literally gonna put it out to the masses. Well, let's just do it. From there is such a freedom to that. Like, can't even.

Jill O'Boyle (05:27.246)
Hmm.

Jill O'Boyle (05:43.458)
Right. Right. Yes!

Jill O'Boyle (05:50.766)
Mmm.

Ashley Pennington (05:51.65)
describe it like that, just like that weight that was lifted. Like there was like a shame hangover a little bit, like a vulnerability hangover that happened. But then it was like, here we are. Like we are reliving it. And now the walls have come down. So a little bit about my story. I, gosh, I started drinking when I was 14. So I live in in southeastern Indiana. I'm from really small town, Illinois. That's what we did.

Jill O'Boyle (05:58.712)
Sure.

Jill O'Boyle (06:14.19)
Mm-hmm.

Ashley Pennington (06:20.27)
Growing up, we drank in cornfields. We drank at our friend's parents' house. That's just what we did. it went well into my college years, well into my adult years. And it really became this piece that was such dysfunction, such chaos. Traditionally, when we think of alcoholism or addiction,

We think of someone who is like confined to their room, dark place by themselves. And yes, that is true for some. I'm not discrediting that. But I think for a lot of us was very similar to my story, which is I drank in groups and I drank to excess. I didn't want the party to ever stop. That was just kind of how it was for me. You know, I drank

Jill O'Boyle (07:02.476)
Right.

Jill O'Boyle (07:10.222)
Yeah. Yeah.

Ashley Pennington (07:19.358)
on Sundays during football in excess. I drink on Mondays, you know, during the bachelor and excess with friends, taco Tuesday, tequila Tuesday. I mean, obviously we're drinking, you know, margaritas. Yeah. And, and Wednesdays I played in a sand volleyball league and out of bar. So we're drinking there. And so for me, it was like the party never stopped. And it was.

Jill O'Boyle (07:32.416)
Margaritas!

Ashley Pennington (07:45.9)
infringing on my daily work life. was infringing on my relationships. was, I'm a high performing leader and I was in the C-suite and I got let go from jobs. but I didn't, I didn't take accountability for it. It was always someone else's fault, right? well it was someone else's fault that I'm drinking or that I'm avoiding this aversive traumatic experience that I had when I was younger. And so I basically was just,

I had to surrender. so yeah, there were a few pivotal moments. I like to call those little holy moments where, one in particular that I talk a lot about and just on my podcast as well is I lived in Milwaukee in my late 20s and I was at the height of my addiction. It was just a terrible time for me. And I remember waking up in the middle of a

Jill O'Boyle (08:25.069)
Mm-hmm.

Ashley Pennington (08:45.762)
busy, very busy intersection in downtown Milwaukee and looking up and seeing a stoplight, not knowing how long I had been there, laying in the middle of the street. No police officers. I wasn't put into jail. I wasn't trafficked. I wasn't picked up. I literally looked up and remember hearing a voice saying, get up and walk home. And it was just like, what? Like,

Jill O'Boyle (08:53.495)
Wow.

Ashley Pennington (09:13.28)
You're kidding, right? And this was after a day of a Sunday of day drinking. I remember, you know, it was almost like I was just sober in that moment, like getting back to my apartment and being able to sleep in my own bed. And you would have thought in that moment, like, OK, I'm done. But it wasn't wouldn't be until two years later when I would meet my husband, who sat down with me and said, hey, we got to do something about this. But I will tell you, there's there's those holy moments that I look back and.

that God was working through me then and here we are.

Jill O'Boyle (09:45.466)
yeah. I mean, to be laying on a street corner to wake up, A, to hear that voice so clearly and just feel like sober in that moment, but to not have something happen to you, not to have, you know, like the protection of the angels around you in that moment. so thank you. Thank you for sharing that. And so I want to get into a lot of different things around.

Ashley Pennington (09:57.963)
Yeah, yeah.

Jill O'Boyle (10:12.47)
a lot of what you just talked about, right? We create, because I've been there, I've been, you create the excuses, the toxic environment. That was always my go-to. Like, well, I work in a toxic environment. just, this wine is my sanity right now. When I get home, this is what helps me get through. Or creating the bachelor nights or the wine Wednesdays or the taco, I mean, all of it, right? It's like, we have to have alcohol in order to have fun or function.

Ashley Pennington (10:20.665)
Yes.

Mm-hmm.

Ashley Pennington (10:37.251)
Yeah.

Jill O'Boyle (10:42.318)
And so you mentioned, same thing with you and you're on the street corner, you wake up, you're like, that should have been the eye opening, hey, let's get my life together now. You mentioned losing jobs because of it. Maybe that could have been a sign to say, hmm, I wonder if the alcohol is causing me to lose the job. So what was it specifically, Ashley, that was like a big turning point for you and how did your faith maybe, you know, that...

Ashley Pennington (11:08.11)
Mm.

Jill O'Boyle (11:12.322)
that clarity of like get up Ashley back then. How did that play a role in that journey?

Ashley Pennington (11:17.156)
Yeah, yeah, no, that's, I'm with you. That's so key. I think for me, the most pivotal moment for me was January 4th of 2019. So I was with my now husband, but at the time, my boyfriend, and I had done, prior to that, I knew that there were issues, right? You'd wake up hungover, like the tremors, I had the shakes, the nausea, just all of it and the shame.

Jill O'Boyle (11:38.658)
Yeah, sure.

Shakes.

Ashley Pennington (11:46.884)
And it was, you know, and I would just like stay in my house. Don't tell anybody, my gosh, who did I call? You know, there were those moments and it would be like, next day, the next day. Yes, yes. And I'd be like, tomorrow I'll be better. Tomorrow I'm gonna start. And it wasn't until that night, I remember we went out with friends. We were living in downtown Indianapolis and we just started, really just started dating. And I got out with friends and I remember that night I told him, said, I don't

Jill O'Boyle (11:54.988)
the replay in your head.

Jill O'Boyle (12:11.906)
Mm-hmm.

Ashley Pennington (12:15.908)
gonna drink tonight. I had been toying around with it a little bit and he's like, okay, whatever. And we went out to dinner and it was something clicked. And I remember I was thinking about the next drink and continuing to think about the next drink. I had played it in my head that we're moving from Indy, we bought a house here in Madison and we need to celebrate. And so we're gonna bar hop. And my husband is like, not, he's like.

midnight, even before that, like now we're in bed by eight, like we're done. And he, I remember waking up January 5th, just with the worst hangover and he sat with me and I, you know, I have so much shame and, and if you know, you know, right, whatever somebody else says to you is nothing compared to what you've said to yourself. Like it's nothing.

Jill O'Boyle (12:44.522)
You

Yeah, exactly.

Jill O'Boyle (13:10.41)
yeah, exactly.

Ashley Pennington (13:13.54)
And so he's sitting there with me and he's like, hey, Ash, like we need to talk about last night. And I'm like, what did I do? You what did I say? What did I do? And he's like something, you he sat with me and held my hand. And it was really in that moment where I was like, there is somebody here that actually truly cares about me enough to say, we need to get help together. And historically there had been people that have been in my life that have said, you need to get help.

But there was this like judgment attached to it, right? It's like, you need to get help. You have the problem. I'm going to sit over here. And at that time when he said, we need to do this together, it was like just, I weeped. I was like, OK. And I'm a smart person. I work in the industry. And it was literally that day where I said, I'm not drinking anymore. I'm not. Like, I'm done.

Jill O'Boyle (13:48.002)
Yeah.

Ashley Pennington (14:12.836)
the coming week, in March, I've been to therapy for years, but it wasn't until March of 2019 where I sought out an actual trauma therapist to do eye movement reprocessing therapy that has really just like gone into those negative thoughts and core beliefs that really just fueled that addiction. yeah, since then it has been, it's been beautiful, but

Jill O'Boyle (14:34.328)
Yep.

Ashley Pennington (14:43.276)
I think the big part in that pivotal moment was having a God, God was working through him in that time. And we didn't realize it until he came with me with this direct and compassionate stance and said, we can do this together. And that was so different than I'd ever experienced in my life.

Jill O'Boyle (14:52.332)
Yeah.

Jill O'Boyle (15:01.378)
Yes, that's so powerful, right? Because A, it shows his love for you, right? And I don't know about you, but sometimes I find that a lot of us can go to the bottle or the beer or the wine because in that moment, everything does go numb and dark, but also it's like we're hiding our own, we're afraid to come out as our true self and so the...

Ashley Pennington (15:02.882)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Ashley Pennington (15:26.54)
Yes.

Jill O'Boyle (15:27.734)
I don't know if you found that, I found that with me. It's like, almost gives us this liquid courage to just be really who we are, but we're not really who we are. does that make sense? I don't know if that resonates.

Ashley Pennington (15:34.836)
yeah, yeah, yeah. absolutely. This image that I try to portray, this perfection, like I I call myself a recovering perfectionist because it's like intentional every day. I'm like, so it's, and it's so, I will tell you, it's, as you know, it's so freeing when you're like, this is who I am. I'm showing up exactly as I am today.

Jill O'Boyle (15:44.984)
Yes! Same! Yes!

Ashley Pennington (16:03.044)
And I think the terrible thing about it is we are in a society where social media has become this comparison trap, where we aren't showing up as our authentic selves. There are so many computer-generated, AI-generated images and things where it's like, are not. And no, it's not. And I was stuck in that. I was like, I'm like, you know, because

Jill O'Boyle (16:18.402)
No.

Jill O'Boyle (16:26.498)
It's not real life.

Yes.

Ashley Pennington (16:32.548)
Prior to Seth, I was divorced and I was displaced. And so it was like, well, I should be here. I should be. And it was like, my gosh, the shoulds that I just kept filtering and formulating this addiction were terrible. so, yeah, it is one of those where that perfection rears its head and you think, I have to show up and be a certain.

Jill O'Boyle (16:42.104)
Mmm, the should. Yes.

Ugh.

Jill O'Boyle (16:54.786)
Yeah.

Ashley Pennington (17:01.966)
way versus how I am. Yeah.

Jill O'Boyle (17:02.711)
Yeah, yep, yeah, others will like me better. They won't like my true self. So this will just help me be that totally agree with that. So in that moment, your husband comes to you. You mentioned he wasn't like a big like night owl, know, midnight's not his thing. But in that moment, did he also drink? Okay.

Ashley Pennington (17:22.668)
Yes, yes. he's kind of a, and he still does, probably about maybe one or two drinks if we go out. So there's really no alcohol in our house. It's not really part of our kind of regimen. But if we go out to dinner or something, he'll have his one or two. I'll have my club soda with lime and a fancy cup. Yeah, that's my thing. And I think too, he and I both, he's asked me too, he's like,

Jill O'Boyle (17:33.634)
Yeah.

Jill O'Boyle (17:38.712)
Yeah.

Jill O'Boyle (17:42.89)
Yeah, exactly. Yeah.

Ashley Pennington (17:52.504)
Would you, do you want me to stop? And I said, no, I, know, that's up to you. We both come from families where alcohol has been pretty, pretty rampant. And it's interesting because in this day and age too, we're seeing a lot more people just our age too, that are like, you know, we're kind of turning away from alcohol because it has disrupted our lives in so many different ways. And so, yeah, it's not a big part, but yeah, he,

Jill O'Boyle (17:55.714)
Hmm. Yeah.

Jill O'Boyle (18:02.85)
Yeah.

Jill O'Boyle (18:18.082)
Yes. Yeah.

Ashley Pennington (18:21.156)
He does partake a little bit, but it's not something that's like a problem, I would say. Yeah.

Jill O'Boyle (18:26.37)
Yeah, yeah, I was just curious. I love that he approached it too with like, should do this together and not that he had a problem or an addiction, but just the fact that he was willing to say, we're gonna do this together and to help you. So that's so good. So let's talk about you. So you decide in this moment, you go into finding this, you know.

Ashley Pennington (18:39.076)
Yeah.

Jill O'Boyle (18:54.254)
wound patterns, belief systems, which is so powerful. It's one of my biggest things that I use in my coaching women through is we've got to get to the root of your beliefs and your habits that you've created and allowed. You've created, something happened to you when you were younger and you, in order for that to make sense in your mind, you created a belief about that and that belief has carried you since it's been nine, 10, 11, 12, and you're now.

Ashley Pennington (18:59.128)
Yes.

Jill O'Boyle (19:20.076)
you know, 47 years old. so in order to make change, we've got to get to the root of that belief system. We got to renew your mindset around it. And that's the great goodness of God is, you know, that's really what he does is he renews our mind. And so you became aware of some beliefs in your past, right? That was leading you to some of this addiction. And so you got you got a hold of that and you you kind of changed your ways and you said you're five years, right?

Ashley Pennington (19:21.316)
and

Ashley Pennington (19:27.908)
Hmm

Ashley Pennington (19:31.815)
YUM

Ashley Pennington (19:36.878)
Yeah.

Ashley Pennington (19:49.578)
Yeah, five years.

Jill O'Boyle (19:50.348)
Uh-huh. And God called you to start sharing about this, right? he always does, right? And it's so scary. It's like, want me to do what? I had the same, same thing. That's how this whole business got started is like, Hey, so you went down to rock bottom moment. You had an affair. You did all this. And I'm like, uh-huh. And some people know that and a lot of people don't. And you want me to go on social media and you want me to be like, so I had an affair and here's what happened. Here's how God restored everything. And he's like, yeah.

Ashley Pennington (19:57.528)
Hi.

Ashley Pennington (20:13.058)
Yup. Yup.

Jill O'Boyle (20:20.33)
And I was like, OK, and you want me to go on stages and tell that to you? Yeah, OK. I don't know how I'm going to do that. But but it was an undeniable truth that, yes, I needed to do this. And it's been it's forever changed my life. Right. But there is shame. There's some things that are going to come up. And soon as God calls you to do something, the enemy is going to come right back because your heart's like, yeah, that does sound it sounds crazy, God, but it also feels so freeing.

Ashley Pennington (20:34.284)
Yeah,

Jill O'Boyle (20:47.47)
and it'd be so great if the world would know this, right? But the enemy is gonna be like, you're gonna do what? That sounds absolutely ridiculous and your mind's gonna be like, yeah, that's absolutely ridiculous. Let's shut that all down, right? And so I wanna hear your story, because I've lived that too and I want others to understand like it's a real thing. And so you mentioned how that came in your story as well in that overcoming that shame has been a key part of your story. And so.

Ashley Pennington (20:52.28)
Yeah.

Ashley Pennington (20:57.208)
Yes. Yeah.

Jill O'Boyle (21:14.712)
How have, can you just speak a little bit about how you've worked through that and how it's shaped the way that you're now approach, you know, helping others through this journey of alcoholism and disordered eating. I know we haven't talked about that, but I know that's, you know, something that you went through as well.

Ashley Pennington (21:19.011)
Yeah.

Ashley Pennington (21:27.972)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, shame. Gosh, I just remember when, because I'm like you, I did not really tell anyone. Like it was one of those where if I was at a gathering of some sorts, I, know, and there was, I remember there was a toast and I was like, I'll take the grape juice. And they're like, are you pregnant again? And I'm like, no. It's like, I don't want to get into it right now. I don't know what to say, how to say it.

Jill O'Boyle (21:54.508)
Ha ha ha!

Ashley Pennington (21:57.814)
And it was like, there was, it was almost like a stigma. There was almost like a stigma involved when you say, I'm not gonna drink. They're like, what, are you better than us? Like, are you pregnant? Are you better? Like what's, and when I decided, yeah. And it was like so many different, and it was almost like shaming in a way of like, do I just tell them? But how do I tell them? And so I remember, gosh, my husband and I, was back in June. We went on this trip. We love going.

Jill O'Boyle (22:06.583)
Yeah.

Jill O'Boyle (22:10.008)
What's your story? What's, yeah.

Ashley Pennington (22:27.438)
The mountains are like our place. Like we love the mountains. And I remember like coming to him and I love to write and I love to speak. And so I said, hey, what are your thoughts on like a podcast? He's like, I think that's a great idea. And I was like, I think I want to talk about my story. And he's like, go for it. And he was actually the first person. So I hadn't really told anybody on social media until four years into sobriety when it was my sobriety date. And I said, I'm thinking about doing a post about it.

Jill O'Boyle (22:29.237)
Mm-hmm, yes.

Jill O'Boyle (22:52.749)
Okay.

Ashley Pennington (22:57.06)
And he's like, you should. And he goes, his exact words were, would clear up all those times you're at get togethers and people ask you why you're not drinking. And I was like, yeah, I'd like that. That would be nice. And so that was kind of the like, hey, and then like the next piece of it was how many people do you think would resonate with you and how many, you know, what's the goal? Cause I always have a goal. I'm like.

Jill O'Boyle (23:03.448)
Yeah.

Jill O'Boyle (23:20.192)
Totally. Well, you're a high achiever. Yeah.

Ashley Pennington (23:21.188)
What's the goal of this? Yes. And so it's like, well, maybe I could lead someone else to sobriety. And so I posted it and many people reach out and like, didn't know about this. then, you know, posting, you know, getting the podcast episode and people from a hometown, reaching out people I'd known for a really long time, reaching out and just helping people navigate, you know, Hey, I'm looking at getting a therapist or do you do the 12 step program?

or what kind of advice do you have for me as I'm just dabbling into this and being able to just say, hey, let me help you find a therapist because that's what I do for a living. That's what I've done for so many years. Or have you thought about looking at pursuing God? Have you thought about your faith in this? And that has been so key.

Jill O'Boyle (23:59.726)
Yeah.

Ashley Pennington (24:17.226)
I will tell you though, when we talk about those moments where the enemy creeps in, I'll tell you my negative core beliefs are, I am a problem and I am not good enough. And those rear their ugly heads in the worst moments. And it's one of those where I have learned through my faith journey. I've worked through, you know, in my therapeutic journey. I've like, when those come up,

Jill O'Boyle (24:33.431)
Yep.

Ashley Pennington (24:47.356)
What else? Like, what am I trying to avoid right now? What is it? What are these things trying to tell me? Because they're not helpful at all. For so long, I wallowed in them of like, I'm not good enough. And so I'm going to achieve more and achieve more until it's, you know, again, like it's like when I had an eating disorder, it's like the number is never good enough on the scale because it's never going to be enough. The number always changes. And so

Jill O'Boyle (24:49.806)
Mm-hmm. Mm.

Jill O'Boyle (25:12.948)
No, it's never enough. Yep. Yep.

Ashley Pennington (25:17.06)
I wrestled with that a little bit after getting sober because it's like, okay, well, I don't have alcohol anymore. I don't have my eating disorder, so I'm going to turn to work. I am going to just blow the socks off of the C-suite. That was not healthy because then I became a mom and then I was like, well, I can't give a 110 % cure there and everywhere.

Jill O'Boyle (25:35.575)
Nope.

Jill O'Boyle (25:41.518)
How am I gonna do all this?

Ashley Pennington (25:45.988)
So then it was like, okay, like take it back down. And I just, remember it was actually, it was flourish. When I started to really, the very first flourish gathering and I just, in that moment, God spoke to me. I have like, there's more, there's more here. There's more in my kingdom. I've kept the doors open for you for so long. Please just, just come in. Just, just check it out.

and I was immersed. just remember first church service after that and just weeping and I'm like, this is what it feels like to be saved. so yeah, it's, it's intentional every day has those, the enemy creeps in with those core beliefs. And you're just like, Nope, not today. We're not doing it. What are you trying? You're not, you're not helpful. So let's go and, let's kind of journal it out and, and figure out, you know, what.

Jill O'Boyle (26:31.426)
Yeah. Yeah.

Jill O'Boyle (26:40.579)
Mm-hmm.

Ashley Pennington (26:41.666)
what you're trying to tell me because this is not helpful right now. Yeah.

Jill O'Boyle (26:44.696)
That's right. And that's why it's so important to know what is the belief that you've created. It's so important to dig back into those wounds that happened to you where that belief started from. Because then, now, it's not gonna stop. I'm not saying that once you figure it out, it's gonna stop, right? But what it does allow you to do is to, just like what you said, is now you can recognize when the enemy, because the enemy like knows it, man. And so now you can recognize it sooner.

Ashley Pennington (26:49.805)
Hmm

Ashley Pennington (26:55.876)
Yeah.

Ashley Pennington (27:12.312)
Mm-hmm.

Jill O'Boyle (27:12.578)
So you don't go down the dead end spiral, right? Of I'm not good enough, I'm not worthy enough, I'll never be able to achieve enough, so why would I bother starting now? This seems stupid, everybody's gonna make fun of me. I mean, to the end of the end of the end, to give up, right?

Ashley Pennington (27:14.986)
Yes, absolutely.

Ashley Pennington (27:26.016)
Yes!

Yes. Yeah, yeah. gosh. Yes, I remember I got in. So I recorded my redemption story. So I met with my therapist. I told her I was doing it, recorded it. My husband took me to lunch and he's like, are you okay? And I'm like, I don't know what I just did. I was like, I don't know what to do. I feel very like exposed. And he's like, that's the enemy. And I'm like, yeah, that is the enemy. Okay.

Jill O'Boyle (27:53.794)
out.

Ashley Pennington (27:55.768)
I feel exposed, but it kind of feels good. And he's like, why don't you just go rest for the rest of day? You're in a vulnerability hangover. And I'm like, that's exactly what it is. Like I just poured my life out here and I can't, I just have to take a break. And that's exactly what it was. It felt exactly like that of just, I could have gone down that spiral, but I acknowledged it. And then we just continued to move on. And so I think that's so key is you just have to acknowledge it and continue to just move forward. I love.

Jill O'Boyle (28:01.518)
Yes. Yes.

Jill O'Boyle (28:08.834)
Yeah.

Jill O'Boyle (28:15.404)
Mm-hmm.

Jill O'Boyle (28:22.06)
Yeah. Right.

Ashley Pennington (28:26.292)
the quote, like, we grow through what we go through because, like, you've tried to go around it. You've tried to avoid it. You've tried to go over it. And you have to, like, it's hard. It's hard. But you have to go through it because the only way out is through. Like, that's it. But it's hard. mean, I know, I mean, we both know from experience, like, I don't want to talk about it like that.

Jill O'Boyle (28:31.158)
Ooh, yeah.

Jill O'Boyle (28:47.422)
So true. Yeah.

Ashley Pennington (28:55.908)
keep that over there on that shelf.

Jill O'Boyle (28:57.502)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And that's what so many people do, right? I want to put this on a shelf. I'll deal with it someday. Yeah, that sounds like a good idea. I should probably dig into that or they'll hear something like a podcast like this. I should go discover that or I should go reach with the counselor or the therapist or the coach, but I'm too busy. That was my always thing. I'm too busy to deal with that, right?

Ashley Pennington (29:04.985)
Yup.

Ashley Pennington (29:21.57)
Yes.

Jill O'Boyle (29:24.76)
But it is, we just wanna push it down, push it down, but it is the most freeing thing when you can finally deal with it. So I know a lot of your work now, Ashley, is through still that mental health and helping women or anybody deal with just mental health challenges, sobriety, and so with families that are struggling with mental health issues, especially addiction.

Ashley Pennington (29:31.478)
Amen. Yeah.

Ashley Pennington (29:53.943)
Mm-hmm.

Jill O'Boyle (29:54.912)
And knowing like, you know, the holiday season could be a trigger, could be a trigger for some people. You know, what can they do to like support one another? What can they do to support if they have someone in their family? Are there specific things that like this time of year that you've seen, you know, work in your own experiences?

Ashley Pennington (30:00.004)
Yes.

Ashley Pennington (30:12.164)
Yeah, this is my favorite time of the year, but it's also the hardest time of the year, right? We are called to slow down, right? We fall back an hour, but do we all slow down? No, like we don't take that extra hour to sleep, right? Like that's an extra hour to get stuff done, right? And so when I think about this time of the year, especially for families, I go back into relationships. We gotta get back to the basics.

Jill O'Boyle (30:25.73)
Right. No. Productivity, yeah.

Jill O'Boyle (30:40.258)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Ashley Pennington (30:41.604)
of the relationship. And again, we live in such a chaotic world where active listening, active listening is kind of gone by the wayside a little bit. We are listening to respond versus listening to understand. It's just that's where we are. We're on our phones. We're constantly inundated with messages. There's never a time where we can just turn it off.

Jill O'Boyle (30:55.213)
always.

Ashley Pennington (31:09.132)
And so one of the things that I think would be so helpful, especially someone who is struggling is active listening. Just, just listen, just create a space, a safe space to just listen. You don't have to solve it. And that was a big thing for me was cause I'm a problem solver, right? Or like high achievers were like, okay, if there's a problem, let me go to the solution. Very solution focused. Sometimes it's not like sometimes I just have to sit with it and

Jill O'Boyle (31:26.113)
Mm-hmm.

Jill O'Boyle (31:34.573)
Yup.

Ashley Pennington (31:38.552)
that can be uncomfortable. But it's like you as parents, as colleagues, as friends, as supporters, just sit with them, just listen. What do you need from me? How can I help you? Really right now a big part, I've talked with a lot of people that I'm like, hey,

Jill O'Boyle (31:40.014)
Hmm

Ashley Pennington (32:01.976)
whatever I can do to support you if you need a therapist or if you need, you want to go to church, you can go with us, know, whatever it might be that helps you get to this place where you feel like you're seeing your herd in a safe manner. I'm here for you. And that's huge. That's exactly what my husband did. He was like, I'm here for you. I don't have to solve it. I don't know what to do in this, but how can I support you? And I think that's so key because even like for someone like me, it was like, how can you support me? I don't know.

Hug me? Okay, great. A hug's good. That's a step. Perfect. Because I'm like, I've done it all myself. And so I think the big thing is like, one, you don't have to solve it. Just create the safe space to listen. Maybe two, if you know that someone has a problem in your family, maybe just like have a dry, a dry plate, you know, a dry gathering or something.

Jill O'Boyle (32:33.472)
Right? Good.

Jill O'Boyle (32:40.718)
That's right. Yes.

Jill O'Boyle (32:47.896)
Mm-hmm.

Ashley Pennington (33:00.674)
Let's not be judgmental about it. Let's not make a big to do about it, right? We're not, you know, we're just, we're humbling ourselves to say, see you, I wanna help you and make it a small intimate space. think it's always getting back to our values and how Christ wants us to show up, right? We're not, we're not.

Jill O'Boyle (33:03.073)
Right. Right.

Ashley Pennington (33:23.716)
We're not getting out into the streets and telling every blend what we did and how we did it. We're doing it in these really small, confined spaces where we're really leading someone to freedom versus just prophesying it and making it this huge to-do. It's like these small, intimate spaces where we build that trust. It's all about trust and relationship building. Yeah.

Jill O'Boyle (33:34.712)
Yes. Yeah.

Jill O'Boyle (33:44.59)
Yeah, that's really good. That's really good. And as you were talking, I was thinking about, especially for, especially for overachievers, high achievers, you know, their biggest weakness is asking for help. mean, because their mindset says that is, that is weakness. If I ask for help, that means that's, that's going to show that I don't know how to do it all. I can't be at all. I'm going to look like a failure.

Ashley Pennington (33:58.604)
Absolutely.

Ashley Pennington (34:03.097)
Yes.

Jill O'Boyle (34:11.286)
And so I would just so encourage if you know somebody like that in your family that is a very much an overachiever, they're a high achiever, they're a top performer, they're up where they are in the company because of that, right? They will just keep pushing themselves to the limit, but yet you know that they're burning out at night. This might be a spouse, this might be a friend that you know. I love your recommendation of just.

Ashley Pennington (34:11.32)
Yes!

Ashley Pennington (34:20.932)
Bye.

Jill O'Boyle (34:37.954)
like how your husband came to you and said, you how can I support you through this? Because they're not gonna ask for help. They may be dying to know. I know when I was in those moments, like I felt so alone because why? Because I was not trying to ask for help. There was many people that was probably willing to help take so much of like my workload off of me, all this stuff, but I would just not ask for help. So I think that's on like the work side, but also like if you see them struggling in the addiction.

Ashley Pennington (34:51.652)
Mm-hmm.

Ashley Pennington (35:00.547)
Yeah.

Jill O'Boyle (35:06.984)
how you can come alongside of them is just to go be with them and ask how they how you can support them and and don't be afraid if they say I don't know. Let's like you like I don't know. So don't just be like, OK, see you. Bye. Like keep checking in on them. Like keep checking in on them. That's really good.

Ashley Pennington (35:18.146)
Yeah. Yeah. Yes. Yes. Because there's a reason why they're on your heart. The Holy Spirit is working through you. And I always say there's a reason why somebody is on your heart and you feel like you need to reach out to them. Just a text to say, hey, just thinking about you. How are you? It could mean the world to somebody. Like, hey, let's get together for coffee or lunch. then

Jill O'Boyle (35:32.459)
Mmm.

Jill O'Boyle (35:37.678)
So good.

Ashley Pennington (35:46.732)
Lo and behold, something's going on in their life and you're there and you can help them work through it and it's amazing, so amazing.

Jill O'Boyle (35:50.488)
guess.

my gosh, that is so true. I don't know how many times somebody random will pop in and sometimes out of fear we're like, I haven't talked to that person in years. That would be weird to be like, hey, you came to my thoughts today. But every time that I'm obedient to that, they're like, wow, you don't know how or I'll get like a scripture or something random. And I'm like, really, you just want me to send this? And every time they're like, you don't know how much I needed to hear that. Thank you. So that is such a good point.

Ashley Pennington (36:17.369)
Yeah.

Jill O'Boyle (36:20.814)
So speaking of you know, just how God speaks to us and how he works in our life You know, we talked about your faith and how that's just been a cornerstone of in your Recovery. And so what are some things that you that you do? Like what's you know, how do you incorporate prayer reflection gratitude in your daily routine? Just to stay aligned with your purpose to stay grounded in this mental health stay grounded in

in sobriety, what are some things that maybe you do that might help somebody that's listening right now that can resonate and are in your shoes right now to just take that first small step?

Ashley Pennington (36:52.874)
Yeah, absolutely. So I think the first thing that I do every day, even before I get out of bed, is practice gratitude. I say the serenity prayer before I get out of bed, just God grant me the serenity. And I think it's one of those things too where my feet hit the floor and regardless if the floor is hot or cold, my feet hit the floor today. And that is a blessing to me. Amen.

Jill O'Boyle (37:01.87)
Mm-hmm.

Jill O'Boyle (37:19.767)
It is.

Ashley Pennington (37:21.796)
Because there are so many times when I didn't know or I tried to make it so that my feet didn't hit the floor. And so that number one is gratitude. What am I thankful for today? And when I look over and I see my three-year-old and I see my dog and my husband, I'm kissing them good morning. And like, I prayed for this, even though the days may be hard sometimes. I prayed for this and we're doing it. We're living, we're doing this together and we only get one life. And so...

There's always something to be grateful for, always. So that's the first thing I do before I get out of bed. I'm like, we're in it. I also love, so I have it here actually, I'm finishing up Luke and Acts, but it's the Immersed Bible Series. It's the reading Bible. I've read through Messiah. There's multiple different books. You can get them on Amazon. But they have a nice little reading guide.

Jill O'Boyle (37:55.246)
That is powerful. Yeah.

Jill O'Boyle (38:06.764)
Mm-hmm.

Ashley Pennington (38:19.872)
a four week or eight week reading plan where you can go in. And it's literally the Bible, but it's the verses and the chapters are taken out of it. So it's literally like a book, like a novel. it's so wonderful. Cause I love to read, like the Bible, it's one of those where it just like sits on the shelf. It is, it is. And I'm like, I want to read it, but I don't, what do I do with this? Yes.

Jill O'Boyle (38:31.631)
that's awesome.

Jill O'Boyle (38:40.078)
It's intimidating at times. Yeah. Yeah.

Jill O'Boyle (38:46.454)
Where do I start? There's sometimes that I'm just like, which I do with that. I'm just like, okay, God, give me a verse or let me just, let's just open it. And then there's words that come, but I love this. So it's called a Merce.

Ashley Pennington (38:51.044)
Yeah. Yes. Yes.

Ashley Pennington (39:00.48)
Immersed, I-M-M-E-R-S-E, and they're on Amazon. You can get them individually. You can get them in a set. And that has been so helpful for me, because I feel like it speaks to me in that moment. And I can read. It's more of a story versus being intimidating. So I know I have to get in the word every day for me. It's just, especially when I feel anxious or I feel myself being pulled in this direction of discomfort, where I'm

Jill O'Boyle (39:19.021)
Yeah.

Ashley Pennington (39:29.656)
working too much or something. like, I tell my husband, like, I need to get in the word. I just need to like sit down, find a quiet space. I also have just a wonderful mental health group. call it AM Inspirations. It's virtual across the country. We have people in California, people in Mississippi, in Montana. We're all believers and we meet every Friday virtually and we just get together and we just talk about, you know, what's on our

Jill O'Boyle (39:55.15)
them.

Ashley Pennington (39:57.024)
You know, what is God calling us to do today? And people that I've known for a long time in the mental health field are people that I'm just meeting, something we really look forward to. And just the last thing I think is so key, I think to me and my healing has been what my therapist and I have called a trigger journal. And so like we've talked about, every day is not a walk in the park. Like there's gonna be things that are gonna set me off where I'm like, whoa, like.

Jill O'Boyle (39:57.634)
Yeah.

Jill O'Boyle (40:09.326)
great.

Jill O'Boyle (40:19.054)
Mmm.

Jill O'Boyle (40:24.952)
Totally. Yeah.

Ashley Pennington (40:27.14)
I'm getting a little defensive about this. Like, what is that? And I have my trusty trigger journal where I write down, you know, the scenario or the question or the statement and, know, what's the trigger? How did it make me feel like both from a cognitive standpoint and from a biological standpoint, like physically, what did it create in my body? What negative core beliefs did I attach to it? You know, the other thing with it is,

Jill O'Boyle (40:30.53)
Ha ha!

Jill O'Boyle (40:49.314)
Yeah, it's good.

Ashley Pennington (40:56.384)
When was there a time before where I've heard this statement or I felt this way before and how did I react? What did I do? And since I can't go back to what I did before, right? We can't make new wine out of old wineskins. Love that. So what am going to do now? And what did I learn from it? And that, like when I take that like 15, 20 minutes to just journal it out or like if I'm in the car and I'm like, okay, fine. I'm going to just do a voice memo.

Jill O'Boyle (41:04.152)
good.

Jill O'Boyle (41:10.274)
Yes.

Jill O'Boyle (41:14.19)
That's good.

Mm-hmm.

Ashley Pennington (41:23.3)
So many voice memos where I'm like, what is this? you get an email or you get a text or you get, or someone cuts you off and you're like, why am I, what am I doing here? What is happening? And then you're like, okay, I'm trigger journal. Let's do it. Okay. This is where we're going. So I would say for me, those have been so key. Just my continued healing journey.

Jill O'Boyle (41:28.044)
Yes, yes.

Jill O'Boyle (41:38.136)
Yes.

Yes.

Jill O'Boyle (41:50.082)
Yes.

That is so good. That's so good. So just to recap what Ashley said, know, three, three things that, know, just are keeping her grounded. And I think are, I so relate to this and I think it would be a great small step for each of you to do is, is one, get into the word, right? Find, find whether that's, you know, I'll link that immerse and I'm going to check it out myself, immerse Bible in the show notes. So I'll link that, but whatever that is for you, you know, get, find God's word and truth.

community, right? So she found a community every Friday morning. I can't speak highly about getting in a community of like-minded people, faith-based people who can speak to you. They are all going through the same thing. So we are not meant to do life alone. So find people that you can walk it out with. So powerful. And then journaling, I mean...

Ashley Pennington (42:47.524)
Mm.

Jill O'Boyle (42:47.574)
I love that you called it trigger journal. never never heard it in that in those words. I love that. I do a similar thing with like note cards where I will hear the lie and I'll say, OK, that's that's not true. That's a lie that I'm believing. And then on the flip side, I'll turn my note card over and I say, OK, what's what is the real truth? You know, and either finding that in God's word or finding an experience in my life where that that makes that statement false. Like I actually, you know,

Ashley Pennington (42:49.912)
Yeah.

Ashley Pennington (43:15.416)
Yes.

Jill O'Boyle (43:17.398)
So I love that. love journaling. think it's super powerful and having those set questions, you know, for people that don't, I hear a lot of people say, you know, I just can't journal. And I said, you can't because you haven't tried. anybody can journal. It's a notebook and it's a pen. And the first question you can ask, even if you are a new baby Christian and you're starting to try this God thing out.

Ashley Pennington (43:27.054)
Hmm, yeah.

Yup.

Ashley Pennington (43:33.657)
yeah.

Jill O'Boyle (43:46.69)
Just try it out. Sit there and just with that pen and that paper and say, all right, God, I'm here with my notebook open. What would you like to speak with me? And just, just sit there. I know quiet is so hard, especially for us high achievers. like, just, just ask and just let your pen. Don't overthink it. Don't even think is this me or is this God? Just start writing and just watch how you won't be able to stop. So yeah. Yep. Yep. Yep.

Ashley Pennington (43:48.238)
Yeah.

Ashley Pennington (43:58.948)
Yeah.

Ashley Pennington (44:07.042)
Yes.

love. I love that.

Jill O'Boyle (44:16.396)
So, so good. like as we close, Ashley, I just thank you. I just thank you for being obedient to God. I thank you for just showing up and sharing your story to be a light in this world because it is so needed. It is so, so needed. And I think it's timely. I think there are a lot of people that are in this season right now feeling restless. They're feeling like things are, you know, they're out of control.

Ashley Pennington (44:23.396)
you

Ashley Pennington (44:42.99)
Bye.

Jill O'Boyle (44:44.008)
they are getting curious as to, you know, what do I need to do? And so I love that you're being being a light in that and showing up for others to help them get started on that. And so as we wrap up today, like what's what would be just one final piece of advice or encouragement that you would just give to someone who right now is just in the thick of it? Like if you think back to that moment that you woke up on that street corner.

So whether that's addiction, whether it's a mental health struggle that they're facing, like they're just trying to find hope right now and just a very, very difficult season. What would you leave them with?

Ashley Pennington (45:21.494)
Yeah, well I would say first off recovery is possible. Period. It is possible. It's hard work. But I think what comes to my mind is you were made for more. You're not made to tend a grave. You have been called by name, by God, to do more than you're doing now. And I think one day you're going to tell your story.

Jill O'Boyle (45:25.614)
Mm.

Ashley Pennington (45:50.306)
and it's gonna impact somebody. It's gonna lead one more person through the fire to get to God. And I just encourage you to just, to go with it. It's gonna be hard. It's gonna be tough. It's gonna be one of the hardest things you ever do, if not the hardest thing. And it's so, so worth it. A life of freedom, a life of recovery, a life in Christ, it's so incredible.

God keeps his kingdom doors open for you. I tried to shut them. I tried to put a padlock on them. He swung them open every time. And finally I was like, okay, I'll try it out. And I weeped. I will tell you, I weeped and knew here I am. And so that's what I can leave with you. You were made for so much more than this. You're not made to your grave. You've been called by name. You are here today.

Jill O'Boyle (46:35.902)
Mmm. Yeah.

Jill O'Boyle (46:45.73)
Mm-hmm.

Ashley Pennington (46:49.538)
because you were called to be here. You were told you needed to be here. You needed to listen to this message and now move. Go. Yeah.

Jill O'Boyle (46:52.6)
Yes.

Yes. Yes. my gosh. Perfectly said and you are so right. believe that, you God uses messengers. And so if something has stirred in you today in this conversation, don't put it on a shelf. Don't say that sounds really great. I'll get to that. I'll wait till the next year. What if next year doesn't come?

Ashley Pennington (47:07.054)
Mm.

Ashley Pennington (47:19.566)
Bye.

Jill O'Boyle (47:24.91)
Just like Ashley said, her answer prayer is at her feet. We're hitting the floor now. So don't wait. You are so made for more. God has a purpose on each and every one of our lives and he is searching for you. There are so many times I've wept when I think about what the scripture says of like, will leave the 99 to find you. And isn't it so amazing that he has found, like he never stopped chasing. I'm like, you had so many other.

Ashley Pennington (47:46.787)
Amen.

Jill O'Boyle (47:53.774)
people to deal with, you kept chasing me and man, did I give you so many headaches, I'm sure, but you never stopped chasing me. You never stopped. you're like, Jill, you're going through it again. Didn't we already go through this and now you're here back at it again, but he doesn't stop chasing you. So please, please, please do not miss this. You are made for more. And I love that Ashley used those words because

Ashley Pennington (48:00.804)
Yes, amen. Yeah.

Ashley Pennington (48:08.42)
Yeah.

Jill O'Boyle (48:19.566)
Right now I'm doing a study called Made for More that's happening starting in 2025 January. We start January 8th. It's a virtual Bible study called exactly that, Made for More. And Ashley's going to be joining in on that study as well. So we're going to dive into discovering, you know, your purpose, God's purpose on your life. We're going deep into some of those suffering moments. All these things are amazing when you

Ashley Pennington (48:35.3)
Hey!

Jill O'Boyle (48:47.362)
Take the time to sit down and really reflect every part of your journey, the good, the bad, right? That's why it's called Romans 828, all things work together for the good for those who love God and are called according to his purpose. He takes everything, he says all things work together for the good. So you should join the Made For More, you should join my 828 retreat, which will be at the tail end of the Made For More Bible study. We have a women's retreat called the 828 retreat, because it's my favorite scripture of all time.

And we go even deeper into finding that purpose. So if you would like more information on that just click in the show notes below The made-for-more is getting a little bit full. So there's only a limited spots because we want to keep it intimate So that we can be open and sharing our stories and what God is doing during that during those eight weeks, so

Find out more there. So Ashley, thank you so much again for being here with me today. Where can the listeners connect with you? What's the best place for them to find more about you, learn more about your story and journey?

Ashley Pennington (49:50.274)
Yeah. So I have my website. So love Ashley P. So it's just exoashleyp.com where you can learn more about me. So I, I'm here to be a mental health advocate. Right. I, so I have my blogs, I have my podcast. So my podcast, a penny for your thoughts, lifting shame and building community is where everywhere, wherever you stream your podcast, but also the episode library will be on my website at exoashleyp.com.

And then you can also reach out to me on the website as well. I'm also on social media, Facebook, Instagram, LinkedIn, and under Ashley Pennington. So reach out to me. would love, you know, if you are finding yourself in this place of I need help, right? The friend or loved one who needs help and I just don't know where to start. Please reach out to me. Don't, don't go to Google. Don't get yourself overwhelmed with whatever, you know, whatever's out there. Please just reach out to me directly.

Jill O'Boyle (50:30.392)
Yeah.

Jill O'Boyle (50:41.644)
Right.

Jill O'Boyle (50:47.533)
Mm-hmm.

Ashley Pennington (50:48.182)
My cell is on my website too. I am here to be helpful to you in whatever way I can. So thank you so much, Jill, and thank you everyone for joining us today. I love this community. I love that we've been connected.

Jill O'Boyle (51:00.514)
Me too, me too. God always knows, he does. He knows the right connection. So I so appreciate that. I will include your website link, which has all those links to your social and podcasts. Highly recommend, go listen to Ashley's podcast as well. I love it. It's on my instant follow as well, which is just so inspiring words of encouragement that we just need to hear in life's beautiful but crazy at times world, right?

Ashley Pennington (51:17.261)
Thank

Ashley Pennington (51:26.884)
Yes. Yes.

Jill O'Boyle (51:29.962)
always fortunate, but it is a little chaotic sometimes. So it's just good to have that breath. Like I said, this podcast was going to be a breath of fresh air for somebody and that's what your podcast does for me. So I really appreciate it. So, all right, everybody, I hope that you found a nugget of information today that you're not just going to hear, but you're actually going to be obedient to and go and do what you are with stirring in your heart today. Go out and make it the

Best day possible and until next time, be you, love life and just continue to rise up.